Hulver's site || cyclists

cyclists

should follow the rules of the road	17 votes - 73 %
should be extra careful because the laws of physics are against them	16 votes - 69 %
are protected by their aura of fitness and environmental righteousness	6 votes - 26 %

23 Total Votes

attention cyclist infidel who ran the yellow light | 39 comments (39 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

Poll should be multiple-choice by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #1 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:26:35 PM EST

because I aim for both #1 and #2.

I also find, as a rider, people who don't follow the road laws make it worse for people who do, because the drivers have no idea what to expect and often get pissed when you take your lane because, say, you need to turn left.

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Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.

you're right by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #2 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:29:46 PM EST

I forget how to edit a story tho?

[ Parent ]

The link should be at the bottom of your story by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #3 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:35:48 PM EST

next to "Post a Comment".

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Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

Is he a cabal ? by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #4 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:49:39 PM EST

I dunno who's fully trusted with the power to edit their own stories..

[ Parent ]

: Good point. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:00:12 PM EST

I don't remember applying for that exalted status. Perhaps a PM to hulver?

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Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

Why the edit? What's wrong? by atreides (4.00 / 1) #6 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:55:59 PM EST

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

_{He sails from world to world in a flying tomb, serving gods who eat hope.}
[ Parent ]

And other cyclists get uppity by ambrosen (4.00 / 1) #16 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:06:16 PM EST

When you shout at them for going the wrong way down a one way street, point out the red light they just skipped, etc, etc.

But it's worth it. Amortised damage-wise, they're doing me more harm than anyone nearby in a car.

[ Parent ]

How do you know he ran the yellow? by R343L (2.00 / 0) #5 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:51:13 PM EST

I mean, if you only barely saw him in time, then you likely didn't see when he entered the intersection. Perhaps it was green when he approached, it turned yellow just as he entered (can't stop now) and he was going slow enough that it took a long time for him to clear.

There have been plenty of times where I came to an intersection, hit the crosswalk (or stop line) when it was green, then had it turn yellow right as I enter (can't stop at that point as I'd end up stopped in the middle of the intersection). I'm sure quite a few drivers were willing to mentally castigate me for "running the light".

Hell, there are some intersections around here where if I am stopped at the light with my foot on the raised pedal, the light can turn green and I cannot clear the intersection before it turns red. And that's on a single-speed where I have to jam the pedal down hard to get moving and then generally stand and pedal at least for a while. I wonder how many drivers, coming to the intersection as I'm finally clearing, have angrily thought "dammit, another cyclist running red lights"?

Rachael

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot

he was zooming downhill by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #9 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:39:25 PM EST

I'd say he was moving at a good fraction of the speed limit, certainly fast enough to have been sent ass-over-teakettle if I'd pulled out when the light changed.

[ Parent ]

I am not sure how this is relevant by R343L (2.00 / 0) #10 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 02:48:46 PM EST

So he's supposed to always pre-emptively slow down to less than, say, 10mph before an intersection on the off chance that a green light will happen to turn yellow right as he enters and a car doesn't see him? Do you, in a car, always slow way down before intersections just in case the light changes? Should cyclists never bike faster than that arbitrary speed that will send them over their bars? (Note: I have gone over my handlebars going less than 10mph -- it depends on how and what you hit, as well as speed.)

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

The lights don't go instantly by yicky yacky (4.00 / 2) #11 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 03:06:55 PM EST

from yellow on one to green on the other. What usually happens (over here, anyway) is that a given set of lights go yellow ("Stop if you can, I'm about to go red"), then they actually go red, then there's a pause, then the orthogonal set of lights go red+yellow, then green.

I imagine clover kicker's point was that, given the speed at which the cyclist was travelling, (s)he must have been cutting it very late on the lights indeed in order to still be on (entering?) the intersection when clover's lights went green.

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Done.
[ Parent ]

Yeah, car drivers by spacejack (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:20:12 PM EST

never do that. Like I won't see that happen about 10 times on my way home tonight.

[ Parent ]

Who cares? by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #13 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:26:32 PM EST

It's an arsehole's move whoever does it.

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Done.
[ Parent ]

Except... by R343L (4.00 / 1) #15 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:52:02 PM EST

Most people don't bother to post calling out (most) bad car driving incidents. Truly, if a car ran a yellow/red in front of you, unless there was something spectactularly special about it (they almost hit an old lady too?), would you bother posting about it?

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

It's true by spacejack (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:40:22 PM EST

It happens so often, and even though they're putting other people into a lot more danger than the cyclist, they rarely get called on it.

So it was raining like crazy again here on my way home, and I saw about a dozen truly spectacular idiots in cars and SUVs putting people's lives in danger, including their own. How many cyclists did I see pulling stupid moves? Zero.

The only reason people point out bad cyclists is because it's relatively infrequent. i.e., noteworthy.

[ Parent ]

: Around here ... by R343L (2.00 / 0) #18 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:51:52 PM EST

Stupid cyclist moves are not infrequent (Market Street even at times has more cyclist traffic than car traffic so you can imagine there are a lot of cyclists). I pretty much see a stupid cyclist move (not just illegal, but stupidly illegal) everyday.
But, that's the reason I want buttons to hand out to good cyclists with "witty" phrases like "I wait my turn" (for cyclists who actually yield until it's their turn at a stop sign) and "Sidewalks are for walking" and "The wrong way is the path of morons". Of course, I need opposite ones to hand to the idiots so they can bristle at me for daring to suggest they are idiots. More pleasant than yelling "idiot! why don't you stop?" and they get a button out of it even!
But, then again, there are plenty of stupid car drivers too. However, I don't really give a damn what the cars do because a motorist driving like an idiot doesn't reflect on me the way other cyclists being idiots does.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

if it was a car by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 07:38:21 PM EST

I wouldn't have been >< close to putting someone in the hospital today.

[ Parent ]

I thought you were worried about your paint job by spacejack (2.00 / 0) #26 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 09:15:52 PM EST

Damage from another car > damage from a bike.

[ Parent ]

touche by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #27 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 09:28:15 PM EST

But the other car driver at least has insurance :)

[ Parent ]

You hope! by R343L (2.00 / 0) #28 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 09:51:06 PM EST

In California, something like 4 to 7 million people don't have insurance (who should) ... the total population is like 35 million (including non-drivers). You do the math on that one. :)

Rachael

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

isn't it mandatory? by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #31 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:22:17 AM EST

In Soviet Canuckistan the cops would start a huge ~~revenue~~ enforcement effort.

[ Parent ]

: Sure it's mandatory by R343L (2.00 / 0) #33 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 10:04:23 AM EST

This does not mean there are not many cars on the road without insurance.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

What on earth are you talking about? by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #29 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:48:45 AM EST

I hear cyclists complaining prolifically about the actions of drivers all the time. I hear drivers complaining prolifically about the actions of drivers all the time. I hear drivers complaining prolifically about the actions of cyclists all the time. I could probably find several posts of both forms here on husi if I tried hard enough. If there's a subset I tend not to hear from, it's cyclists castigating other cyclists.

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Done.
[ Parent ]

: Amen by TurboThy (2.00 / 0) #30 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 04:02:00 AM EST

IIRC both CBB, blixco and jtl has posted several traffic whines.
__
You can't fix anything, you can't change anything, so just tell them that everything is A. The Fuck OK. —Rogerborg
[ Parent ]
: Usually the whines are a bit more than by R343L (4.00 / 1) #34 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 10:17:08 AM EST

"Oh, he cut that yellow a little close" because generally you watch to make sure the intersection is clear before going. If it had been a car, the author almost certainly have seen them run the light and would not have started. There likely would have been no post because a car running a red light is not noteworthy.
And I don't think there are that many traffic whines here (I'm sure there are far more in daily conversation, though not generally in mine). Perhaps I just read past them because I just don't give a damn most of the time. And, so we are all clear, the traffic whines I make in reality these days (I don't consider them worth immortalization on the internet) are generally 90% about stupid cyclists. Because San Francisco is rife with them. When I was still in the suburbs, there were more cars (and they often didn't like me in "their" lane) so I think I may have posted a couple times on that. Perhaps I could enumerate the stupid shit cyclists do to make you happy? The problem I've been fighting locally is that in SF there is a great deal of car-bicycle polarization where a lot of motorists seem to think all cyclists are crazy and even when they do something legal and reasonable (but slightly out of line of what a car might have done) it's still "stupid" because they "shouldn't have been there".
The reality is that the reason we castigate one or another particular other vehicularist (note: I am including cyclists and motorists here!) is that we don't believe what they did is reasonable. All I was trying to point out is a case where this behavior could be reasonable. I probably wouldn't bother with a car-car whine because frankly I don't care what cars do most of the time.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

perhaps by R343L (2.00 / 0) #14 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 04:28:15 PM EST

Except if it's a wide intersection, it can turn yellow right when you hit it and you not be able to clear before the red or even before the opposite green.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

fast lights ? by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #24 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 08:42:09 PM EST

even on my crummy 10 year old mountain bike, I can clear a yield left when it turns yellow and I'm waiting for traffic to clear..

[ Parent ]

: Maybe by R343L (2.00 / 0) #25 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 08:53:59 PM EST

But I've certainly quite a few times hit the stop line on a green, have it turn yellow and then have it turn red right before I clear. There are some big intersections around here and I guess some fast lights (or my cycle computer completely misreads my speed and I'm actually going like 5 mph when it says 12-15. :)
Also, if you're doing a left, you're probably halfway out, no? Not quite the same thing ...

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

it's his skin by clover kicker (4.00 / 1) #20 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 07:41:27 PM EST

When I bike I try not to get into dangerous situations that risk collisions with cars, maybe I'm crazy that way.

[ Parent ]

Perhaps I am unclear by R343L (2.00 / 0) #21 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 08:06:14 PM EST

I originally was questioning that what he did was unsafe -- if, as I postulated, he got to the intersection right at the green/yellow boundary, then he can't stop safely and must go through the intersection. You're saying this is still dangerous. So perhaps he should treat all intersections like stop signs. Perhaps he shouldn't bike at all. After all, even if he stops completely at every possible danger point (does this include driveways?) and goes less than 10mph, he's still risking a collision with a car since he's on the road or near one.

Anyway, you have only countered my hypothesis with "he was going some large fraction of the speed limit", which isn't relevant: a cyclist is allowed to go as fast as the speed limit if it's reasonably safe (which I would say, for most roads where cyclists are going to be and most cyclist's ability and equipment, it's going to be damn hard for him to go "too fast").

Rachael

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

woah, hostile by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #22 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 08:12:41 PM EST

You can either believe my story that buddy put himself in danger or you can believe that the sainted cyclist was in danger thru no fault of his own, as you like it.

[ Parent ]

No, not at all by R343L (2.00 / 0) #23 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 08:21:56 PM EST

It's just I originally very politely, I think, postulated a way he could have done something perfectly reasonable and generally safe ... and you haven't exactly said anything to counter that. Perhaps if you said "well, I had been looking that way and there's no way he could have gotten to the intersection at the time you're saying", then I wouldn't even have questioned it being unsafe. Instead you've said "he was going too fast" and "I don't put myself in danger and this was dangerous".

I am well aware that there are many cyclists that bike very unsafely -- I see it every day. I do however bristle at the suggestion that any time a close call happens then the cyclist must have not been careful enough and that's how I read your original post: he was in the intersection when he shouldn't of (I almost hit him!) so therefore he must have been biking without reasonable care.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

meh by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #32 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:26:22 AM EST

He's passing in front of my car when the light changes, not reasonable nor safe.

I didn't see him until he was within spitting distance so I have no idea what he was planning or how he came into the intersection, but if I'd been just a little heavier on the gas it wouldn't have mattered what he was trying to do.

[ Parent ]

I already explained by R343L (2.00 / 0) #35 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 10:21:51 AM EST

How it is perfectly reasonable for a cyclist to be in an intersection in this case. It happens to me at least once a month because the light changes at just the wrong time. I cycle like mad to clear because I don't trust cars to actually check to see that the intersection is clear when it hits green ("green means go!"). That doesn't mean I'm "unsafe" or "unreasonable" just regularly unlucky.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

: hope you stay lucky -nt- by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #37 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:11:21 PM EST

[ Parent ]

some car drivers yes by dev trash (2.00 / 0) #39 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 06:42:40 PM EST

Unless I see a light turn green, I'm always slowing down as I approach the light.

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Click
[ Parent ]

Probably had his drivers license revoked by spacejack (4.00 / 1) #7 Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 01:57:00 PM EST

Not a real cyclist.

Luck, or following SOP by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #36 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:46:23 PM EST

For operating a motor vehicle?

It is of course lucky for the cyclist that you were a driver who looked, because most drivers do fall somewhat short of SOP in their normal driving behaviour.

But still, expecting to be congratulated for practising standard driving awareness is a bit much, isn't it? Or maybe keeping a good lookout's easier for me in the crowded, hilly 18th century city I just drove across than it is in the designed-for-the-motor-car one you're in.

: Personally by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #38 Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 04:58:48 PM EST

I'd be happier if both drivers *and* cyclists were more aware of pedestrians.
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_{ウセーバラケダ}
[ Parent ]

attention cyclist infidel who ran the yellow light | 39 comments (39 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback


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